March 2008Saturday, September 5, 2009
Tuesday, September 1, 2009
Intermarriage = Holocaust???
I continue to try communicate with Chabad my frustration regarding their pattern of bias moderation and censorship. As usual, with most of my complaints, I receive no response. These people, typical of most religious Jews, will just ignore people who oppose them.
Here is a copy of an email I sent the moderator of Chabad; I mentioned specific examples of blatant bias.
Nechama Posner,
In the recent past, one or two of my comments which I hoped to have posted on the Chabad website were rejected by the moderator.
I believe one of my "offensive" statements, according to you, was when I referred to the Torah as a "bunch of junk." I ultimately revised it to read that the Torah was "nothing spectacular" and my comment was eventually posted on the site.
During this exchange, I mentioned to you that another commenter called people Nazis if they choose to intermarry. Imagine -- Jews being compared to Nazis! I relayed to you that I didn't think censoring my comment was fair, considering what was previously allowed to pass through the comments section on the Chabad site.
You responded "If you read a comment from someone else that does not seem to meet the 'no-nastiness' rule, feel free to let us know. (I could not find the comment you mentioned. Can you tell me where it is?)"
Well, here it is:
Avi
Avi, with much love for you (for I love ALL Jews with a passion even I don't understand) there is nothing wrong with your girlfriend.
There is a major problem with you marrying her because by doing so you are helping the Third Reich complete its intention of eliminating every Jew on the earth.
Your girlfriend, not being Jewish, cannot bear Jewish children. So if she bore 3 children, those 3 would be lost from Judaism forever as would their generations after them. That is why your family is upset.
Any Jew who marries a non-Jew is killing Judaism as certainly as if he or she were at Auschwitz gassing those whose deaths we recall this week and all year long. ANY Jew who intermarries murders future Jews; it is as simple as that.
Search your heart, are you prepared to halt 4,000 years of your lineage? If she is willing to become a Jew, no problem. Try to explain to her that there is nothing wrong with her religion, but in order to have Jewish children, she has to convert or you can't marry.
Posted By Beverly Kurtin, Hurst, TX
I, (using my previous, unmarried name, Elisha G----) immediately responded to this repugnant comment and my comment was able to pass through the moderation process and posted on your site.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/39606/showfeedback/true/jewish/Why-Do-Jews-Exclude-Other-People.htm
I wrote:
Beverly,
You are a scary person indeed. You say: "Any Jew who marries a non-Jew is killing Judaism as certainly as if he or she were at Auschwitz gassing those. . . "
Certainly those of you who visit this site regularly cannot condone this belief. Sick.
Posted By Elisha in IL
Ms. Posner, as I mentioned in one of my previous communications with you, I do not wish to advocate censorship in any way. I am only pointing this contradiction out to you because I think that your moderation is biased.
This Beverly person has every right to state her racist, repugnant opinion, and I have every right to rebut the ridiculousness of it.
Plus, even if I were so thin-skinned as to be offended by the ignorant words of strangers, how can you possibly equate my insult of an inanimate object, an ancient text like the Torah, to an insult that compares people who intermarry to the Third Reich?
Furthermore, why does Chabad moderate PRIOR to posting? If the comment doesn't meet your arbitrary criteria for publication on your site, you can always, as editors of the site, delete the "offending" material AFTER you read it on the site.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As of yet, no response from Chabad. It's sad but all to common: people can live with their heads buried in the sand, as if there is no opposition to their silly belief system.
Here is a copy of an email I sent the moderator of Chabad; I mentioned specific examples of blatant bias.
Nechama Posner,
In the recent past, one or two of my comments which I hoped to have posted on the Chabad website were rejected by the moderator.
I believe one of my "offensive" statements, according to you, was when I referred to the Torah as a "bunch of junk." I ultimately revised it to read that the Torah was "nothing spectacular" and my comment was eventually posted on the site.
During this exchange, I mentioned to you that another commenter called people Nazis if they choose to intermarry. Imagine -- Jews being compared to Nazis! I relayed to you that I didn't think censoring my comment was fair, considering what was previously allowed to pass through the comments section on the Chabad site.
You responded "If you read a comment from someone else that does not seem to meet the 'no-nastiness' rule, feel free to let us know. (I could not find the comment you mentioned. Can you tell me where it is?)"
Well, here it is:
Avi
Avi, with much love for you (for I love ALL Jews with a passion even I don't understand) there is nothing wrong with your girlfriend.
There is a major problem with you marrying her because by doing so you are helping the Third Reich complete its intention of eliminating every Jew on the earth.
Your girlfriend, not being Jewish, cannot bear Jewish children. So if she bore 3 children, those 3 would be lost from Judaism forever as would their generations after them. That is why your family is upset.
Any Jew who marries a non-Jew is killing Judaism as certainly as if he or she were at Auschwitz gassing those whose deaths we recall this week and all year long. ANY Jew who intermarries murders future Jews; it is as simple as that.
Search your heart, are you prepared to halt 4,000 years of your lineage? If she is willing to become a Jew, no problem. Try to explain to her that there is nothing wrong with her religion, but in order to have Jewish children, she has to convert or you can't marry.
Posted By Beverly Kurtin, Hurst, TX
I, (using my previous, unmarried name, Elisha G----) immediately responded to this repugnant comment and my comment was able to pass through the moderation process and posted on your site.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/39606/showfeedback/true/jewish/Why-Do-Jews-Exclude-Other-People.htm
I wrote:
Beverly,
You are a scary person indeed. You say: "Any Jew who marries a non-Jew is killing Judaism as certainly as if he or she were at Auschwitz gassing those. . . "
Certainly those of you who visit this site regularly cannot condone this belief. Sick.
Posted By Elisha in IL
Ms. Posner, as I mentioned in one of my previous communications with you, I do not wish to advocate censorship in any way. I am only pointing this contradiction out to you because I think that your moderation is biased.
This Beverly person has every right to state her racist, repugnant opinion, and I have every right to rebut the ridiculousness of it.
Plus, even if I were so thin-skinned as to be offended by the ignorant words of strangers, how can you possibly equate my insult of an inanimate object, an ancient text like the Torah, to an insult that compares people who intermarry to the Third Reich?
Furthermore, why does Chabad moderate PRIOR to posting? If the comment doesn't meet your arbitrary criteria for publication on your site, you can always, as editors of the site, delete the "offending" material AFTER you read it on the site.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As of yet, no response from Chabad. It's sad but all to common: people can live with their heads buried in the sand, as if there is no opposition to their silly belief system.
Orthodoxy and censorship: no alien ideas allowed
Somebody like me -- a confirmed secularist/atheist is definitely not welcome at Chabad.org, a place for true believers only. Still, just to see how closed-minded they are, I decided to write to the moderators of Chabad.org about their blatant censoring of the free flow of discussion and information on their website. Of course, I will not get a response.
Here is a copy of my letter:
I wrote a previous comment which was intercepted by moderators. I have noticed that it is the religious websites which constantly impede freedom of speech and expression, i.e., any questioning or dissent. But I suppose that I should expect nothing less from a group who chooses to live in self- imposed ghettos and rear their children in Yeshivas.
This entire lifestyle is geared toward keeping outsiders out and protecting and preserving your version of "the truth."
Prohibiting intermarriage is just one of the number of ways which you exercise control over the information and opinions which are in direct opposition to your views.
This kind of Judaism does not want to promote freedom of expression. It is about reinforcing the same world-view, over and over.
Yet there are many good people who feel, quite deeply, and have strong, scientifically-based reasons to believe that nothing in the Torah actually happened. This is not arrogance, but a search for the truth.
So far, no reply.
Here is a copy of my letter:
I wrote a previous comment which was intercepted by moderators. I have noticed that it is the religious websites which constantly impede freedom of speech and expression, i.e., any questioning or dissent. But I suppose that I should expect nothing less from a group who chooses to live in self- imposed ghettos and rear their children in Yeshivas.
This entire lifestyle is geared toward keeping outsiders out and protecting and preserving your version of "the truth."
Prohibiting intermarriage is just one of the number of ways which you exercise control over the information and opinions which are in direct opposition to your views.
This kind of Judaism does not want to promote freedom of expression. It is about reinforcing the same world-view, over and over.
Yet there are many good people who feel, quite deeply, and have strong, scientifically-based reasons to believe that nothing in the Torah actually happened. This is not arrogance, but a search for the truth.
So far, no reply.
Chabad-niks defend tribalism
Occasionally, I enjoy a walk on the wild side -- I get involved in a dialog over at Chabad.org. These people are fundamentalist Orthodox Jews.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/39606/showfeedback/true/jewish/Why-Do-Jews-Exclude-Other-People.htm
In a current thread, Chabad and its followers are defending their racist practice of advocating marriage only within their tribe.
This was one of my comments in regard to Jewish exclusionism and tribalism (which never made it through their moderators):
Daniel asks the forum, "What is tribalism? Isn't that what the native Americans have? Are you saying the native Americans are wrong?"
Yes. Tribalism is wrong. That is the point.
Look at the definition: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tribalism
1: tribal consciousness and loyalty; especially: exaltation of the tribe above other groups
2: strong in-group loyalty
Jews are by no means alone -- practically every ethnic group continues to hold onto this primitive belief of unquestioned loyalty to the in-group. You can't have loyalty of the in-group without the exclusion of others.
Most Jews are a self-admitted tribe, something that as an evolved human, I would NOT be proud of.
If ever there will be peace in the world, it will certainly NOT be when Judaism becomes the "light of the world," as many Orthodox and other Jews contend. This is the height of self-centered arrogance. We'll be a lot closer to peace when the cult(ure) of TRIBALISM is extinguished from society.
Beverly says, "I wonder if anyone here has bothered to find out what Judaism is. It's in the Torah."
Yes. And I reject it, this primitive compilation of myth, genealogy, and endless rules and regs. But to Beverly and others, it's inconceivable that there are people who have been raised Jewish, who have been taught precisely WHAT Judaism is -- yet they find it to be nothing worthy of praise. You need to grasp that.
If I told you, Beverly, that if you really bothered to find out all the beauty in the Koran, you would be a Muslim. And it is only because you haven't read the entire Koran and listened to all the Imams interpret it, that you are not a Muslim. Would that work for you, Beverly?
I look at Judaism and see probably the same thing that you see in Islam. I see a primitive, violent, conquering people egged on by their egotistical, genocidal, and petty god which they have created in their own image.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/39606/showfeedback/true/jewish/Why-Do-Jews-Exclude-Other-People.htm
In a current thread, Chabad and its followers are defending their racist practice of advocating marriage only within their tribe.
This was one of my comments in regard to Jewish exclusionism and tribalism (which never made it through their moderators):
Daniel asks the forum, "What is tribalism? Isn't that what the native Americans have? Are you saying the native Americans are wrong?"
Yes. Tribalism is wrong. That is the point.
Look at the definition: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tribalism
1: tribal consciousness and loyalty; especially: exaltation of the tribe above other groups
2: strong in-group loyalty
Jews are by no means alone -- practically every ethnic group continues to hold onto this primitive belief of unquestioned loyalty to the in-group. You can't have loyalty of the in-group without the exclusion of others.
Most Jews are a self-admitted tribe, something that as an evolved human, I would NOT be proud of.
If ever there will be peace in the world, it will certainly NOT be when Judaism becomes the "light of the world," as many Orthodox and other Jews contend. This is the height of self-centered arrogance. We'll be a lot closer to peace when the cult(ure) of TRIBALISM is extinguished from society.
Beverly says, "I wonder if anyone here has bothered to find out what Judaism is. It's in the Torah."
Yes. And I reject it, this primitive compilation of myth, genealogy, and endless rules and regs. But to Beverly and others, it's inconceivable that there are people who have been raised Jewish, who have been taught precisely WHAT Judaism is -- yet they find it to be nothing worthy of praise. You need to grasp that.
If I told you, Beverly, that if you really bothered to find out all the beauty in the Koran, you would be a Muslim. And it is only because you haven't read the entire Koran and listened to all the Imams interpret it, that you are not a Muslim. Would that work for you, Beverly?
I look at Judaism and see probably the same thing that you see in Islam. I see a primitive, violent, conquering people egged on by their egotistical, genocidal, and petty god which they have created in their own image.
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