What the Devil? Pious Jews comment on demonic possession

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/43702/The+

People have commented on this story on the Yeshiva World's website. The comments are all over the ballpark.

Some, dismiss this ghost story with humor as these first people do:

What next, a talking fish?
Comment by Pashuteh Yid — December 22, 2009 @ 12:01 pm

Does the dybbuk need his own visa or can he come in on the avreich’s?
Comment by p_almonius — December 22, 2009 @ 12:38 pm

Maybe the shofar they blew on a plane for the swine flue will help him i hope he gets the same plane!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0gvbw1S4Ks
Comment by juda — December 22, 2009 @ 1:42 pm

I want to examine some of these other comments to try and understand the mindset of (some) Orthodox Jews.

My father, sisters and their families all practice some version of Orthodoxy (modern orthodox or Sephardic) and I wonder if they hold these wacky beliefs too.

There came a point while reading these comments that I needed to look up many words which were being used (mostly by the illiterate fucks) - some words are purely made up and some words are a version of a Hebrew word or concept. I will attempt to define if it becomes pertinent to the discussion.

These people continuously pepper their writing with such crap (I call it Heblish) that it becomes obvious which people are isolated in their self-imposed ghettos and which may have actually ventured off into the real world: The world which contains THE OTHER (oh no).

More skeptical humor from the comments on Yeshiva World then we'll get to the really loony stuff (I wanted to give somewhat of a fair representation of the comments on Yeshiva World and to show that not all the comments are nutrageous).

All misspellings and other errors in the italicized material are reproduced exactly as written; I have added only an occasional -- sometimes sarcastic -- definition (boldface).

The Mekubal (mystical Rabbis who do the Jewish version of exorcism) failed to remove the dibuk the first time because he used a treif (non-kosher)video conferencing software - Skype. Had he used ShidduchVision™, the only video conferencing software approved for Torah Jews, the whole thing would be over already
Comment by justajew — December 22, 2009 @ 2:53 pm

Actually, the best way to remove a dibbuk is not via Skype, as many a dibbuk remover can tell you, the best way is to first clean out your hard drive, then download a reverse anti-virus, dibbuk remover ,I think MacAfee makes one - dibbuk remover 2.0 ( I believe it works with Bluetooth applications)There should be a thirty day money back guarantee, or the dibbuk is yours free of charge!
Comment by holykugel — December 22, 2009 @ 3:31 pm

Those were priceless. Thank you, justajew and holykugel, for giving me a laugh out loud moment (lol).

This next comment shows the blatant ignorance of the English language of the ghetto-bred. (S)he isn't even capable of understanding basic capitalization and grammar.

I can’t beleave that a yid can make any jokes when a yid, (wife) are in a Problem !!!And I beleave that there are things that are higher that what we think our small head understands.Those who think they know Everything, Nothing will help them to beleave, they don’t bealeave in Rabis, Tzadikim..I don’t mean that you have to beleave in Everything…Comment by holyland — December 22, 2009 @ 3:20 pm

(**Learn to spell BELIEVE, you retard)


Next comment:

Whether or not this is the a real dibbuk or not is questionable. However history has shown that they did exist. The famous story where the Chofetz Chaim ZT”L had Rav Elchonon Wasserman HY”D, get rid of a dibbuk of a girl was documented by Rav Usher Katzman ZT’L, a former Rosh Yeshiva in Torah Vodaas. Among the particapants where such notables as Rav Chatzkel Levenstein ZT”L. Rav Elchonon would retell the story every year on Purim and would say Kaddish for it on the anniversary of when it left the girl for 19 years. Rav Pittai, a Talmud Muvak of the Ben Ish Chai was know to exorsise dibbukim on at least 2 occasions, as did the Chida.
Comment by chanie T. — December 22, 2009 @ 6:19 pm

As is typical of these types who do not think for themselves, the writers seem to be impressed with name dropping. I would LOVE to see a documented Jewish version of an exorcism. Where can I find it?

Next comment:

I can’t believe how many people are taking this lightly. Even if true or not, the Gedolim (great Rabbis) who are mentioned are Tzadkim. (righteous ones) Dybukkim (plural dybbuk or ghost)for can happen. Unfortunately, as the Rav mentioned, the generations are weaker then the previous holy generations. The facts are for some to believe that after a person is niftar, (dead) there is Din V’Cheshbon. (Judgement day) Do all of you who do not believe really think, that after 120 years, we won’t have to answer to Hashem (god)??
Comment by mazal77 — December 22, 2009 @ 10:44 pm

This writer must live within an eruv (an enclosure around a home or community enabling the carrying of objects out of doors for Jews on the Sabbath). Every sentence here is rich with "in-words." (S)he obviously doesn't get out much because the average person would not comprehend this dense in-group jargon.

Next:

A dibbuk is nothing new. It dates bak to the times of tanoim (Rabbis from the 1st and 2nd century) and even before. Many a story is recorded bout them. This is a neshomo (soul) who needs a tikkun (universal correction) and came down to this person to rectify his tikkun. There was a story bout 7-10 yrs ago of one in Israel and one of the big mekubalim (mystics) got rid of it. Lets hope it doesn’t happen again as it would be………

I had to spend WAY too much time looking up these Heblish words. I can't believe these people actually function in secular society.

Isn't it obvious that Christianity and other religions have the same concept about the soul (another unified fictional entity) being somehow stuck in limbo between the living world and the afterlife?

Let's call GHOSTBUSTERS instead of some dumb rabbi.

Next comment:

Hacham Batzri, shlit”a is well known for this type of work. Whether this perticular story is true or not, search on Google for dibbuk HaRav Batzri and you will find the famous ecorcism that this Gadol has done on video - over 80 minutes long. All those that have downplayed any of this either through rude or jokeful words, really should be careful how they speak.
Comment by davidhasofer — December 22, 2009 @ 10:01 pm

Oh my Gosh, there is a Jewish exorcism done on video?

Can we find it on Youtube?

I think this person is scared of the ghosts (dybbuks) that he created in his own mind since he wraps up his idiocy with a threat, [they] “. . . should be careful how they speak.”

Jews are very involved with their superstition and believing that words have power. Praying proves this point alone.

But Jews are the only group I know that forbids uttering the name of their god, and they must write the name of their god in this fashion: G-d. Incidentally, nothing has EVER happened to me when I write out the word god, even without capitalizing the first letter.

Next comment:

It doesn’t say much for the level of learning amongst YWN readers if you are scoffing at this story. Dibbuks have happened in the past and surely will again. Why would a simple avreich suddenly invent the whole thing, plus learn to speak in different voices, while not moving his lips. Why would he allow G’dolei HaDor to “waste time” on him; and why would he scare his wife to the extent that she wants a get (Jewish divorce) (this I do NOT understand - if she’s scared she should temporarily remove either herself or her husband from the home, but divorce?)
Comment by shalom in Israel — December 23, 2009 @ 12:25 am

Criticizing a person's “level of learning” is par for the course in Orthodox Judaism. I have heard it numerous times in my own family from my father and from Rabbi Joshua Maroof, my brother-in-law. http://www.mdscbe.org/rabbimaroof.html

They somehow think that if you study with the “right” people and get sucked into their web of thinking you’ll see the truth of Judaism. Bullshit. I don’t have to learn about the entire history of Jewish demon possessions and the Rabbis who were involved with ridding them to critically analyze the concept of Dybbuks (ghostly possessions) and come to the conclusion that it is BULLSHIT.

Referring to the previous comment again: (S)he doesn’t understand why someone would invent the entire story and have Rabbis waste their time investigating the claim of the Dybbuk. REALLY???? I can think of several reasons why. One being that he enjoys all the attention that he is receiving. And the second being that he is mentally ill and needs psychiatric treatment.

Why do people say they have been abducted by aliens? Why do people say that they see Jesus in grilled cheese?

Next comment:

To those here writing in defense of “tzaddikim”, you are not honest with God’s Torah, which teaches that Moshe Rabbeinu made mistakes. If Moshe erred, people today surely err.No Rabbi, Gadol or tzaddik is flawless, and they are certainly no where near Moshe’s level. Tanach (Torah) does not support dibbuk. Therefore, defending it, or today’s Rabbis, is against Torah.Be true to God, not man
Comment by Rabbi Moshe BenChaim — December 23, 2009 @ 8:04 am

Ahhhh, a rational voice within the madness. He claims to be a Rabbi: Rabbi Moshe BenChaim. I doubt it but still he is flamed by his fellow Jews in the next series of comments:

“Rabbi” Moshe BenChaim - I don’t believe that you are a Rabbi and if so your smicha (achievements) is not worth the paper it is written on. Can Tzaddikim (righteous ones) make mistakes? Yes. But why are you instantly assuming that they definitely are in this case? Are you not aware that the Ari z’l, the Gra, the Besht, the R’Shash, the Ramchal, the Maharal, the Chofetz Chaim, and just about every Godol (high priest) in the last several hundred years has held that Dibuks do exist! Who are you to come out with such disrespect to the top gedolim of our generation and state that they are a bunch of morons?! How much Kaballah (mystical sacred book) do you know? Do you not consider that these wise men, who know the ENTIRE Shas and Poskim Baal Peh, also know Tanach with ALL the meforshim Baal Peh as well as a vast library of other knowledge in their heads? If you tell me that you have a vast library in your HOUSE I’d believe you. If you told me that you have a vast library in your head I’d laugh at you! I’m quite sure that you don’t know shas on your finger tips and yet you have the audacity to insult the wisest men of our generation!
Comment by Softwords — December 23, 2009 @ 9:00 am

Oh yes, this one is a doozy. I actually gave up attempting to define some of this horseshit toward the end of his rant. Some of these words he uses don't even exist anywhere else on the internet.

Softwords first tries an ad hominem attack (personal insult) by attempting to discredit the Rabbi by saying that his credentials are not worth the paper they are written on. Then he says that YOU can’t possibly know more than all the Rabbis of old since they are Gadols or important Rabbis -- and he believes it.

He continues to namedrop by telling us that all these famous holy men have believed in Dibbuks so therefore, they MUST know what they are talking about. This logical fallacy has a name too: Argumentum ad populum - if a lot of people or important people believe something then it must be true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy/Appeal_to_popularity

But that is not enough for them to just believe it. They must simultaneously condemn all those who don’t share their silly beliefs.

Softwords, don’t forget to end your comments with the typical threat: [How dare] "you have the audacity to insult the wisest men of our generation!"

Yes, Yes, I do and I will. Fuck your Rabbis and their lies.

Next comment:

To Rabbi Moshe BenChaim: Please, do not insult the Tzadikkim (righteous ones) of today. Please do Teshuva. (repentance) If you do not understand Dibukkim, that’s fine. Stay away from it. HaKadosh Baruch Hu (the holy one, blessed be he) has decreed a Dibbuk to exist at this time with this poor Avreich.
Comment by Arieh — December 23, 2009 @ 9:59 am

This one really seems scared that people are making jokes about Dybbuks and the rabbis who uphold the concept as true. She says PLEASE. PLEASE do not insult the holy men of today. PLEASE, PLEASE repent for your words, she begs.

Why are you so scared of WORDS, Arieh? Maybe because you are taught such nonsense by your retarded rabbis.

I’d like to see Rabbis teach some critical thought or a course on logical fallacies. It will never happen. Rabbis must keep their sheep scared and stupid.

Next:

You are allowed to ask questions, seems very much like those in the “Jews for yushka” (Jesus) Rabbis who are not authentic Jews. I am making an educated guess at this because of the way he chooses to write Hashem, (god) the term “today’s Rabbis”, as well as the underlying context of a separation between Hashem and any individual, INCLUDING our Gadolim (high priest rabbis) and Tzaddikim. (respected elders) but please, do not criticize it. I beg of you.I know that this dibbuk is false because anybody who believes that another person can come along and criticize a holy kehila (community) in klal yisroel (Israel) who at that very moment is davening (praying) in shul, (temple) no less, is a complete faker. What license is there to tell a whole shul (temple)“You are sinners. Get out!” This is such chutzpah (balls) against pure and righteous yidden, (Jewish people) that obviously whoever said it is full of hot air. Even the Navi Yeshaya was punished for saying Bsoch am tmei sfasayim ani yoshev. How dare any soul criticize people who are in the middle of davening.

Comment by Pashuteh Yid — December 23, 2009 @ 5:07 pm

This one is the best so far. There are so many in-group words used here, his thoughts would be unintelligible in the real world.

He starts with using the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman when he compares this situation to a certain sect of Judaism which he believes is not the "authentic" version, thereby dismissing any and all contradictory information.

I think this is a typical way of thinking for Orthodox Jews: they justify every piece of contradictory evidence against their beliefs by using some version of this fallacy. I have witnessed this on many occasions. They dismiss the opinions of others by saying that so and so did not grow up in an Orthodox home, or is a convert, or did not have their Jewish education or that of their Rabbi.

These are all cop-outs and a way for them rectify the cognitive dissonance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
which obviously occurs in their brains in the face of reality in order to continue to hold onto their silly beliefs.

Then he states WHY he thinks this person is not a real Jew - because of the way he chooses to write the word HaShem and how he uses the term 'today's Rabbis.' Give me a fucking break. This is the way he dismisses someone's opinion by judging which superstitions he follows?

He then BEGS us not to insult the self-appointed holy men and tells us why he thinks this ghost story is false - not because it defies logic or reality but because:

(and this is the best yet) a dibbuk would never even consider entering a faithful Jewish community and interrupt their davening (prayer) session with such falsities.

(After I picked myself up off the floor)

I am not able to see the logic here. As if church walls don't fall down due to storms and kill parishiners who are praying in the pews. Or bombs and tanks don't bombard the holy city of Jerusalem, Right? Because the faithful exist there?

How can that happen to these faithful people? Why? Because nature is random and your god does not exist and therefore cannot use nature to control people as the primitive shepherd people (ancient Jews) actually believed.

Next doozie:

my husband was in Yeshivat Hashalom this evening, and the story goes, that this man is NOT an avreich. (newly married or yeshiva student) He distanced himself from the kehilla (community) and started learning about cults. And then the dibuk (demon possession) hit him. They say the dibuk is from over 100 years ago, someone who murdered his wife and son…No wonder the wife wants a get…But I wouldn’t be so quick to belittle Rav Batzri - he is an Odom Godol. They say that Rabbi David, from Nahariya, stands for him…

Comment by chilliworker — December 23, 2009 @ 5:32 pm

Oy Vey. Where do I start?

(S)he starts with the "No True Scotsman" fallacy when she mentions that the man distanced himself from the community and started looking into other cults. (S)he probably means another religion or even atheism. But she is basically saying that this person is not a good, faithful Jew and when he started diverting from the beaten path, BOOM the Dybbuk hit him.

Jeez, it's as if she believes he is being punished by the vindictive, jealous Yahweh by having a demon instilled in this man's body. That is so Catholic sounding.

I can't believe people in this day and age still believe that their fictious god dishes out rewards and punishments as he supposedly did in the Torah.

This commentator also elaborates upon the origin of the Dybbuk. Oh how Jews LOVE their stories. A complete backstory is now being fabricated right before our eyes. . . . this ghost is over 100 years old and murdered his wife. . .

I'd like to know the name of the Rabbi that is passing along this nonsense as fact. It is just not possible for any Orthodox Jew to have an independent thought without hearing it from some Rabbi first. Everything must be filtered through the Rabbis.

Then the poster uses implied threats: "I wouldn't be so quick to belittle Rav Batzri he is an Odom Gadol." (A Big Kahuna.)

She then mentions that a Rabbi David, no doubt some important rabbi for HER, vouches for Rav Batzri, the fool who reported this backstory of the Dybbuk.

I'll repeat myself again: Orthodox Jews are very impressed with the authority which they invest in their Rabbis. Name dropping is a way of life with them.

Pashuteh Yid - A ger (student) once came to Hillel and ask him to teach him just Torah Shbichsav because he did not believe in Torah Shbaal Peh. Hillel agreed and taught him the first 4 letters Alef, Beis, Gimmel, and Dalled. The next day the ger came back and Hillel showed him the same four letters. This time he taught him that the first letter was a Dalled, the second a Gimmel, third a Beis, and the fourth an Alef. The ger stated, “I don’t understand. Yesterday you told me that that the first letter was an Alef!” Hillel retorted back, “if you trusted me to tell you what an Alef is then why don’t you trust me to tell you that Torah shbaal peh is true as well!” The nimshel - All the gedolim state that Dibukim are real, with NO exceptions! So why don’t you trust them?!?!?!?
Comment by Softwords — December 23, 2009 @ 8:45 pm

Well, here is our good old Softwords commentator again. This time he chimes in with a story. Jews and their stories; what can I say?

His story is about authority and trust. The message is that a Jew is to trust and believe everything his Rabbi says. He is not to question.

Afterall, if all the other Rabbis agree that demon possession is a real phenonemom, then it must be so, with no exceptions.

Then he whines at the end, "why don't you trust them?!?! [The Rabbis] (S)he truly doesn't understand why people just don't believe everything their Rabbis say. To Softwords it seems obvious that if the Rabbis say it's so, it must be so. Independent thought eludes this type of person.

Is there any possibility that this man may be suffering from some type of psychosis and needs to be treated by trained physicians, instead?
Comment by Pashuteh Yid — December 22, 2009 @ 11:33 am

Yes, I think that this may be the answer.